Don't know can't tell you suttle changes are hard to remember we were always changing as we went along. I do remember having a problem with a particular run with tabs cracking it is possible this was the design
Note: The forks with front slot were sold because the photo above proves it! Photo comes from the orginal owner of this Hutch Lil Holeshot!
The first brake bridges were drilled out but those cracked after hard braking.
Were there frames made with blank brake bridges too at the same time?
Profile was the first to build Hutch frames for us. The ones with drilled brake plates there are two types of drilled brake plates. The first ones witch were made by Profile were the ones we had problems with braking witch that problem did not show up until later as frame got older. So the later ones were thicker drilled brake plates. Just not sure of time frame when we went to the thicker brake plate. By this time we moved into our first where house and started building in house but also still used Profile to keep up with demand. There was no record kept on witch ones came from where. Not long after this, did we find out that Profile was selling bikes out the back door on us and we had an agreement with them not to. So it was not a good ending to our relationship but we did try to give them a second chance. But they were selling our design out the back door just without Hutch stamped brake plate.
What time we are talking about building the frames in-house?
After moving to the next location (Alco Place facility in south Baltimore, Halethorpe in late 1981),
aloud us to bring just about everything in house at this point also prier to this MCS was also making other things for us including pedal parts, stems, seat clamps and other small parts. but with new factory we slowly brought things in house. Bill Grove was our answer to this he was very good at production and knowing the equipment we needed to grow. at this point first thing he did was design all of our weld gigs would be exact so there was no way they would be different and computerized tubing cutters and benders so everything was exact also brought in any of the round things that we had in house like seat clamps, hubs, and the chain ring discs. Also doubled our welding staff from about 30 welders too 55 welders and brought everything in during the day to keep any eye on quality control. Bill pretty much became my dads right hand man to run the factory and help with design of any new proto type work came along.
proto type stuff was always the word of the public pop always listen to what our riders wanted and he would build it in the beginning that is what I would do if some one had an idea I would work with them to give them what they wanted just the basic stuff the more complicated things Bill Grove was the man. It is hard to put a time line on some of changes because we were always making changes in production as we went along most changes were not recorded when they changed we just always listen to the public and if it was something small the change made. I think is also what made us so popular because we did listen too every one every letter that came in too us and I do mean every letter pop would read if he thought it was worth looking into it would get handed to me to look further into witch was fun I was given free will to do what I want to see if would work witch if thought I could make it work then I would give the idea to Bill and he would pretty it up and also make changes then give to what ever one of our riders we thought could help us with this.
The next move was to Benson ave?
Yes then Benson ave around late 1983 early 1984 time frame.
Did Profile sell Hutch frames with a blank brake bridge?
Yes we did hear that they were and that is what helped end our relationship again they where only doing raw material product for us they were shipped to us for chrome plating and inspection that is how we know we did not ever sell one that was not drilled or stamped.
So, the Hutch frames with a blank brake bridge were made by profile and sold by them? And did Profile use your design to make there Profile frames (with extra tube in the front triangle) or did Hutch use the profile design?
Profile built the ones with the drilled brake plate and they used our design. The early Profile frame just had a different brake plate. We did file a law suit over this with them but settled out of court by them changing and adding the extra tube but still the same as Hutch but was enough change that the courts aloud.
So Profile used your design?
That must be hard and you couldn't do anything about that?
No just like any other patent law only have to make suttle changes to put your name on it.
Not long ago there was a drilled Hutch frame found in the Profile factory, chromed and with decals? So they did not only the raw work!
No they did no chrome work for us down there nor sticker. We did use a company in Curtis bay to do this work for us it would come back to us at our house for cleaning and boxing. We were always sending stuff back and forth maybe for them to look at because of problem or something else we may have been looking at.
Then Thruster took over where Profile left off right?
Thruster did help us for a short time here and there though it was not steady just when we could not keep up
Thruster did weld frames for us and they did help us after loosing Profile. Thruster did a lot for us they picked up the slack we could not keep up or where going through a change that was another reason for bring Bill in to get control of all of this things where growing so fast for us it was extremely hard for my dad to keep a handle on. The no. frames they did for us is unknown.
It is possible one reason tried to get everything in house hard to keep control of our product when someone else was building it for us.
From mid 1982 till around the end of 1983/ early 1984 Thruster made frames for us. Thruster was building for us at our specs. Left over stuff from Profile came to our place (Alco Place facility in south Baltimore, Halethorpel) for us to finish up. After that we did our own tubing cuts and bends but again they where doing our stamped pieces we did not have the tooling to do this.
Early 1984 we brought most of our stuff in-house. Not everything but most by this time. We where also using MCS and there prices where better then Thruster on making our stamped pieces.
Did Thruster ever made frames with a blank brake bridge?
No not for us not to say they didn't though
I've seen several hutch frames with blank brake bridge and Thruster look welds
We thought it was because was after the drilled plate that cracked
No never blank did go to a thicker drilled plate then went from there to stamped
So how do you explain the blank Thruster made hutch frames then?
If you seen frames with no name then they are not our frame now that is not to say that maybe they where selling frames out the back door and maybe just sending them over sea knowing they would not get caught but just ask pop again if he was sure they did not weld for us and he says no and I don't think they ever did either. we never sold any without the name stamped in it now there are some that never came back to us where it was on up side down pop does remember some of those where still out there because he remembers making the comment that those will be collectors someday.
That's something to talk about.
Hutch frames with blank brake bridge are found in the USA, several.
And those have the same welds like Thurster frames.
Pop does remember a bitter end with Thruster due to "X" (Rich and his dad don't remember his name but it was someone who was involved with Hutch) and seems to recall talking to Thruster behind "X" back because he felt bad about the way it ended by trying to make it right and thinks he aloud them to make a no. of frames and forks for them to sell to recouped some of there money but he says he thinks it was a one time thing for a limited amount but not with the hutch name on them because we did not send decals to them.
So the blank brake bridge Hutches were probably made by Thruster to get some money back after "X" miss steps?
Yea pop thinks this statement is right.
And was there no time that you run out of engraved brake bridges?
no way we were going to run out of any stamped pieces we could get those fast we had huge if i had to guess 6ftx6ftx6ft boxes full of these pieces
Were there times that different companies build Hutch frames and forks at the same time?
Yes, MCS and Thruster and in-house? mcs = cruiser, mini and junior Thruster pro exp mini and junior?
And who made the pit?
Forgot about that bike I think Thruster did
When did you move to the second facility at Benson Avenue?
Pretty sure we did move into our second building early 1984 and thought we where still using Thruster. Now we did not just cut them off all at once either though we weened them off till a point.
Late 1983 the serial numbers started for the 1984 models.
Sounds about right time frame. But serial #'s did not happen right away in the beginning we where just trying to get organized so first run of frames where not serial #'rd not until we used up most of our inventory was used from Profile. When Thruster started helping us is when serial #'s started all was going on around same time
84 models were the first with serial numbers. Those were made in-house or also by Thruster?
Thruster was the ones who where making those plates even for us so yes they where using serial no. too. How they kept track of there no. may have been different then us
Interesting because all this time we thought Thruster just made the none serial number frames!
Thruster made frames have that Thruster look weld, I've never seen a Thruster made frame with a serial number? How can you explain that? Maybe that Thruster look weld was just from one welder?
I thought it was just us and Profile that built frames with no. serial no. Now it is possible that some of the product that Profile had went to Thruster, to get them started with us. It is possible, pop don't remember them either building without serial no.
In roughly 1984 time frame also we decided to try and make these stamped products our self witch also had no serial. but easy to tell these very short time was to expensive for us to continue they where machined instead of stamped
Back to Thruster if you don't mind, to clear that up.
You don't remember that Thruster made no serial no frames?
But there are plenty around! That's why everyone think that only Thruster made frames that time and not you.
No not really even pop said we where at such a scramble at that time trying to find someway to get production ramped back up because the end with Profile happened fast. It is possible some product from Profile went there to get them rolling but pop thinks not I seem to think maybe they did.
I would not think it was too many though. Also not sure anyone knows is that they did raw finished stuff for us, it was shipped to us for inspection and chrome plating with us
There were kids back then who every day looked in the dumpster near the Thruster plant, and they found miss made hutch frames
that's how we know that they made the frames
Yea we had the same problem at our factory also
like I said I think they did do some for us with out #'s just can't confirm that because pop does not think so
Why did you change the rear dropout design after Profile build frames?
I remember those Profile ones all too good! Every one of those tips were hand filed on a grinder by me and a friend before they were shipped to Profile. For use pop thought it was easier for the customer to put the wheel in the groove. Days and days and days doing that useless step. Lol i can laugh about that now! That changed due to my bitchen about grinding them.
There were also Thruster made fork remember?
Yea they did make forks for us too there tubing bender would not match our bends for some reason so we went with what they could do for us
And such forks were made at the same time when you made your forks in-house?
All because you could not follow the demand for f&f's?
Yes! One of the biggest problems we had was demand that's why it was hard for us to keep tabs on everything. Pop was very hard on us back then to keep up with the demand just tried to get it done how ever we could.
Why didn't use Thruster the same dropouts like you?
Because that meant retooling for Thruster witch meant more money and biggest thing time before we could get them building for us.